Tell me about yourself.
--insert misguided babble about my self-concept--
Honestly, you could probably sit with me for ten minutes and make better observations about my external appearance and personality than I could. I can’t see it very well.
* I reread this beginning portion before submitting it and it evoked a sort of dramatic argument. A person asks me how I can expect to be typed when I cannot type myself. This came from first connected the idea of someone loving you before you can love yourself to the situation.
What do you study or do for a living? How did you come to do that? What do you like or dislike about it?
I am in the Information Networking and Telecommunications program at university. However, my heart is elsewhere and I would rather fail at singing than wither away in a stuffy office and slit my wrists to count the days that I experience the torment of a grey-scale life that lacks all five senses.
What are your values, and why?
TRUTH – I hate bullshit. I hate being fake with people. I hate not knowing things. Forms of deception never felt right to me. Truth is ultimately the desire of humans. We want understanding and knowledge, yet we deceive and withhold.
LOVE – I haven’t experienced romantic love. However, I feel that love is so much bigger and encompassing than that. I want romantic love but I desire platonic love with various friends and I know that I love ideas like music and autonomy.
MUSIC – Any time I feel bad or am bored, I listen to music or sing. I could sing all day. It makes the time pass and brings me joy.
SELF-EXPRESSION – I have so much going on within my mind that I want to share it. Music seems to be the medium that best suits me.
Perseverance and wildly pursuing my desires despite the cost – I have grown to realize that I would rather fail at what I love then succeed at being bored and unfulfilled.


What else do you do on a daily basis? What are your interests and hobbies? Why do you do them?
Describe your relations with family and friends. What do you like and dislike about them?
My mother – She sees the forest for the trees, whereas I cannot see the indivudal specs and details that make life so sweet. She doesn’t really help me in ways that I value. I can see IEI-ESE or ILI-ESE as plausible. Both would have similar issues with an ESE. Her Si Fe is not really what I want. I don’t care about my bodily sensations. I would much rather dismiss them until they go away. She asks if people need water or are hungry, and often times I don’t know what I feel physically. She seems to be a blatant reminder of my shortcomings.
** I decided to go back to this section after writing what I do for a living. My mother thinks college is a panacea. I really want to do music and I think she would understand that but she thinks college leads to happiness. I completely disagree. I can understand her point of view however. She didn’t attend school and struggles to make money. I am not her though and I need to follow my desire.
My sister – She doesn’t give me any Se. She is quite boring and responsible. She and I get along well enough, but I predict that we’ll never be super close. She and I don’t value family and tradition the way our mother does.
My father – Rather than seizing life, he tries to drown out reality through various means. Previously, he was worthless to me. Throughout my childhood, I witnessed several occasions that demonstrated his weakness. I try to love him but I don’t think he’s fulfilled his duties and my relationship to him is one sided and fruitless. I ponder ridding myself of him but my mother says that people regret doing such things. I, on the other hand, think it would be a demonstration of my own self-love and value to excommunicate him from my life.
Friend 1 – She feels like everything I need in my life. Yet, she wants something meaningless and I would rather have a long term relationship that could change us both and allow us to be happily in one another’s arms.
While I don’t think I would have liked her in her youth, she has come so far and developed into a sexy, confident young lady that knows her shit and speaks the truth.

What do you look for in friends? In romantic relationships?
I typically don’t look for friends at all. I find that people disappoint me far too often. I can think of more interesting things in my head, than I can find coming out of the mouths of others. I am interested in friends and romantic partners that will allow me to smell the roses. I spend far too much time in my head. I am at the point where I want to LIVE and to live it fully.

What conflicts have you encountered recently with other people? Why did they happen? Which kinds seem to happen on a regular basis?
My mother and I bicker often. She bothers me with trivialities. I don’t like cleaning at all but she really pushes me to fulfill my household duties. She also asks me questions about things that don’t interest me and that is enough to upset me. I resonate with – as I went to look for the section of an ILI profile that I resonated with, I found

How would your friends describe you?
So this question doesn’t really apply to me because I don’t have many friends. However, I can share some characteristics that have been said about me. I will mention that I hold these evaluations of my character very dear because I don’t get people to talk about me often and I cannot see myself from without. I once read a description of Ni and it mentioned an inability to see oneself from without because the individual possesses too strong of an internal world and mental landscape. I certainly relate to that idea.
Mysterious, quiet, nice, cold,
As I was looking for the descriptions of myself that I have recorded I saw an old journal entry:
Another sip. I've come to recognize the significant place that coffee has in my life. I am bored. I am severely bored. Coffee is my single high of the day. The universe without it would be a cold, cold one.
It is but an artifice. A habit of my own which simulates something real. I need people. I need experiences. Yet my life is lacking both.
LOL at how Se-suggestive that sounds.

What do people generally see as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?
I feel that among other people my Ni goes unseen. I don’t express it. I can come off as inattentive and aloof but I don’t think people would know the complexities of my internal processes and the connections that I’m constantly making without me expressing something.
I like that I see relationships between things and am able to create this inner connected ball of ideas, experiences, and such within my mind. Everything reminds me of something else and that keeps my mind busy. I think I have a very associative memory. I can forget things but then something will provoke a beautiful memory within me.
What are your weaknesses? What criticism do you often face from others? What do you dislike about yourself?
I suppose my chief beef with myself is that I lack a trust in myself. I often have premonitions but I don’t trust myself and so I wind up getting myself in trouble. Perhaps I get in trouble purposefully, as an escape from the monotony and blandness of my miserable existence.

In what areas of life can you manage well on your own? In what areas of your life would you like help?

I have trouble with the practical aspects. Sometimes I think this would be evidence toward lower level Te, yet I think that SLI is more practical and ILI is something else entirely.
I really just don’t care for chores and efforts that go in vain. Cleaning the house is a temporary fix. Burn it down and your house will always be clean. Wow! I just came up with that in jest but I think I could use it in a poem or something. What a poignant expression of my trouble with things of this world.
I hate things that require constant upkeep. I want to witness the fruits of my effort, rather than having the work be thrown down the train when everything is a mess as soon as I look away.
Additionally, I really don’t care to do things that seem extraneous. I am economical with my energy and my time. I don’t overexert myself for trifles and meaningless crap. I think I have an ability to discern what is useful, what is not. What is a waste and what is not. This sounds like Te to me. My mother has like zero respect for Te at all. In my eyes, her priorities are whack and she lacks the wisdom that I possess. I really don’t think we value the same functions. That seems like the easiest explanation for the troubles she and I have regarding relating to one another.

What things do you find to be a chore? What things do you enjoy more than others?
As I expressed in the paragraph above, chores are chores. Haha See what I did there?
Honestly, house work and stupid favors for others. Today, I was upset because a girl at work told me to put something away. I am higher up on the chain of power than her and she was basically a lazy bitch for asking me to do something that she could do for herself. I am independent in the sense that I don’t try and waste the resources and precious time that others have by asking them to do stupid shit for me. I am getting mad just thinking about it but I know it was a little insignificant instance that matters little.
My mother also pisses me off because she asks me to throw things away for her and do meaningless stupid shit like that. She can do this stuff for herself. I guess this boils down to my issue with people not valuing my time. I think others just fling their time out for whatever. I don’t view time that way. As I’ve said about my honesty and discover that I need to pursue my passion, I don’t have long enough on this earth to do stupid shit for others. I don’t even like doing the stupid shit that I have to do for myself. It is an insult for others to not value my time. This seems like an Ni qualm to me.


What goals, aspirations, or plans do you have for the future? How did you come to have them?
I want to sing, perform, and produce music. Over the past few years, I have become quite interested in singing and critiquing the performances of artists. I really love 60’s jazz and blues as well as more contemporary music.
The event that acted as a catalyst for my sureness about my future desires was the concert that I attended on Friday. I was in awe at what the artists were able to stir within me. The overarching ideas within the performance that affected me were striving to create, love of it
music, autonomy, confidence, and of course, Se powers.

It was funny that I went to see the new Pirates of the Caribbean movie. One theme that I picked out from the film was Jack Sparrow’s inability to do the very things that he desired and brought him down. I related to this, as I have always known that I want to sing, however I’ve put it off and tried to love other things out of fear.
The sticker on my cup of coffee said, “Behind the clouds, there is sunshine”. While this may seem like a trite sentiment, it felt like a message that after all of my efforts to become a singer, I will find success and achievement. I may have cloudy days but I will ultimately subdue the hunger of my heart.
Very small things connected to my inner world can be isolated and assigned value and meaning very easily and naturally by me.


If you had enough money to live comfortably for the rest of your life without working, what would you do with your time?
I would get with other artists and put out music. I would write music with people that inspire me. I would spend days traveling with a lover. I would shake off my ennui by doing risky things that give adrenaline rushes.
What kinds of things do you do to manage and/or beautify your environment (your room, your house, etc.)? What do you think of daily chores?

How do you behave around strangers?
Around strangers I am more reserved. However, after attending the concert I have been more open with others and approached people. I no longer feel like I have time in my life to not talk to people and be open. I want to know others and I will have to make the first move. I often find that people are put off by my perceived imperturbability but I am friendly and expressive when I get to know people.
How do you react to conflict? What do you do if somebody insults or attacks you?
I don’t encounter this issue often because I stick to myself. However, when I argue with my sister, I intentionally escalate my emotions and act like a dramatic scene in a movie because I think arguing is stupid and excessive expressions of any emotion are tacky and out of style.
What is one common misconception that people have? Explain why it is wrong.
I am interpreting this two ways to provide more information. One common misconception that people have with me is

One common misconception that people have is they think that whatever they hear word-of-mouth is true. I am studious and I examine aspects of my life. I think most people find it suffice to be unintentionally mislead by others. I find things out for myself and attempt to check my sources and find credible information. I often take the subjective musings of others as a grain of salt. I take interest in pure knowledge rather than someone’s unsubstantiated and misguided thoughts.

What did you do last Friday?
Last Friday, I did something amazing! I went to a concert. While I hate the loud music, as I think about the long term effects of hearing loud sounds because I would like to have hearing at an old age, I get uncomfortable. However, I had an exquisite time. I saw the artist at the merch table. She actually sold me the tour shirt that I bought and she called me cute. :3 I was a bit start struck but I complimented a song on her album that brought me to tears. About the song bringing me to tears: -- I was sitting in the car listening to it, with my mother beside me. The main theme expressed through the song was a love of music and a fidelity to creating music.
Anyway, attending the concert seemed to be the kick of Se that I needed. She was incredible and she opened my eyes to something that I’ve always known yet has terrified me. My love and my lust for life is music. While I can go on, fearing rejection and putting off my one true desire, I will only hinder my happiness and my potential. I have sat on a gift and done very little.
I surmise that if I had a powerful Se ego in my life, I would be further developed than I am now. However, I cannot shake this dissatisfaction that has been awakened within me and this love of singing and music.
This last Friday was a treat though. A typical Friday for me consists of work and then driving around listening to these lyrics. “Walking through the city streets
Is it by mistake or design
I feel so alone on a Friday night
Can you make me feel like home if I tell you you're mine
Honestly, that Friday helped me grow. I feel the change within me. Where I once was inhibited and afraid, I realize that life isn’t long enough to not pursue my goals and my happiness. I won’t let shyness or any other inhibition stymie my progress toward my goals.


Who do you admire, and why?
This is truly the area where I see Ni within myself. While I am less sure of my creative function, I know wholeheartedly that I love and admire Se. Confident, powerful people who pursue their desires and know how to have a good time excite me beyond belief. I am so boring and inactive when I’m alone. One of my few drives is to find someone to lighten me up and to do crazy shit with.

What are your religious or spiritual beliefs and why do you hold them?
I was raised Christian. I am really in a wish-washy spot right now. I don’t know what I believe. I feel like I would need signs and wonders to take place, in order for me to truly believe the Christian doctrine. If I wasn’t Christian, I would probably be atheist or agnostic. I truly cannot know whether there is a God or not, so I cannot be either. I can’t say for certain either way. To limit the possibilities by saying there is a God or there is no God seems foolhardy to me. The lack of proof keeps me from asserting either claim.

What are your political beliefs, and why? To what extent do you care about politics?
I don’t particularly care about politics. When I was younger, I was full of opinions but as I have gotten older I see too many perspectives to have an opinion of my own.
I feel that I am slowly coming out of this phase of lacking opinions. Perhaps, all it would take is external volitional force to shake me from my apathy.

What kind of work environment do you prefer? What do you look for in a job?
I have done retail since high school. I am definitely tired of it and want to do something that fulfills me. Retail and menial jobs are where the creative desires of people go to die. I know that I can’t do this forever, as it wears me thin often.
I want to do something that doesn’t require me to feign emotion and closeness to people that I either dislike or don’t know at all.
I want to tour the world, singing and connecting to people. I want the albums and bodies of work that I create to resonate with the alienate, with the depressed, and with the broken. I want to be an uplifting force. That is what music has been for me and I want to provide that same experience to others.
What is or was your favorite school subject and why?

How do you approach responsibility? What do you tend to expect of others?
I am quite averse to responsibility more often than not.
To me, it is an external expectation and I focus mainly on my internal processes. I think that people often assume various things. My mother will say “I need” or “I must” and I just rarely see the world that way. There is a choice within each statement. There is a condition at the end of each declaration of necessity or responsibility.
I can see the power strings in between the sentences. I need… to work. However, one must not work. You can sit on your bum and do nothing for the rest of your life. That is an option and I see that possibility. Most others, however don’t see the world this way. I think my feeling that I won’t ever be understood keep me from seeking friendships and hinder me from opening up around others.
If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
My main concern for the child would be to prepare it for the future. I think that my mother and father lacked the intuitive finesse to prepare for a child or to parent well. They didn’t think about things that seem obvious to me.
I would make sacrifices in the present to ensure that my efforts to allow my children to flourish into adults would not go in vain.
What is the purpose of life? What do you find personally meaningful in life?
I think that everyone has been given desires and aspirations. I realize that the meaning of life is to pursue the things that please you. I mean this in a way far more true and pure than hedonism. Activities such as sex and drug use often fill holes and gaps within people. Rather than allowing them to pursue their true desires, they mitigate the pain and make you feel better temporarily. The urge and desire for ideas and the metaphysical always prevails and cannot be truly quenched by a bottle or a blowjob.

Hi, I'm me. Finally here :hyper: What exactly should I say about me? I'm EII, and the rest of the details I'm not so sure. So, what else?

I'm melting, the temperature went through the roof, I carbonize, this is hell, it's way too hot pls help what are the dos and don'ts of managing the summer?

Research of Fears in One-Dimensional Functions


Really interesting article.

Do you find that your greatest fears relate to your one dimensional functions (4 and 5). Are your lesser fears correspond to your 4 dimensional functions (1 and 8)?


Please note that one letter abbreviations are used to designate functions as is a common practice among Russian socionicists.

The equivalence is:

R = Fi (ethics of Relations)
E = Fe (ethics of Emotions)
L = Ti (logic of Laws)
P = Te (logic of Procedures)
T = Ni (intuition of Time)
I = Ne (intuition of Ideas)
S = Si (sensation of Senses)
F = Se (sensation of Force)

As an LII, my one dimensional functions are E (Fe) and F (Se). However, I would say my greatest fears fall under R (Fi) and E (Fe), where I related to everything. F (Se) surprisingly I fear less according to the description. I very much fear unwarranted aggression and sometimes fear that I won't be strong enough to adequately defend myself or my interests, but this is not my greatest fear. The other things under Se, I only occasionally fear or not at all.

However, I did strongly relate to this example given for LII:

Screenshot (306).png

Overall, my lowest fears were in the areas of L (Ti) and T (Ni), both of which are 4-D functions for me.

However, I have fears scattered about in all 8 functions. (I am a phobic enneagram 6 after all!) For instance I fear being called incompetent, which is said to be associated with P (Te) and also not amounting to anything in my life (I, Ne), and loss of health in old age, (S, Si).

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• Screenshot (306).png (31.9 KB)

I am a diagnosed autistic. Can socionics or typology in general apply to those on the spectrum, or can it only apply to neurotypical brains?

I find myself asking people what they are doing today or tomorrow a lot and what time they are doing it. Or "What time will you be back?", to the point where people have asked me if I'd like them to make a schedule for me before. And of course I say yes. It kind of frustrates me when they have no idea, or they just say "later", so I find myself trying to guess at least. I always like to have an idea, at least, or a projected time. I like to time estimate. Also, when I'm going somewhere, I like to know what the game plan is. What time are we leaving. What are we doing, and when we can expect to be back. I don't like to just get in the car and go. Some people seem ok with just winging things like that or not having a projected time.


So is this rationality? Something else? What IE's are at work here?

I used to really really love her a few years back, but she's still pretty awesome. I'm suggesting IEE

He is LIE! Just watch how LIEs think:
https://youtu.be/Lg_6wJV6Buk

I wonder why i don't see it mentioned more often than I think it should be mentioned.

since I have found Socionics, life is easier, I can know myself better, why I am the way I am, I can understand people better, I can predict them, accept them, and be excited by things they do since "wow I had read in X article you would do this and you did it!!!" "so that's why X and Y get along and Z and T don't" "oh so that's why he disagrees" "yeah nothing's wrong with that look it is explained right here..." etc etc

I think socionics is addictive. specially for logical types like myself since we will to a larger extent rely on it for figuring people out and predicting them than an ethical type would. anything addictive is blinding and I think socionics can be blinding. well I didn't think so until an ESI friend mentioned how it can "make you less observant" and "when you look at children, they have no prejudgments so they are really observant"

While the theory has helped me be more at peace with myself, it has also changed my view on people so much that I am sometimes blind to their mistakes, the reasons for my conflicts with them, caring enough so solve misunderstandings cause "it is just the way it should be, I am not supposed to understand you! you are SEI!" or "Why should I be upset that X did that?! X is my dual!"

so I think it is very important to note that we should be careful with it. not rely on it more than our own observations of individuals. thinking "SLEs are supposed to be assholes" is not a good excuse to give them more rights to act in a way an EII shouldn't. expecting an EII friend to listen to you when you are upset since they are "the Empath" shouldn't make you upset when they are busy with work.

and the part about "famous people types" can also be funny. would give you pride for no reason, "wow Mr.Mrs.BlahBlah has the same character as I do". or well it doesn't make a difference.

There is something inherently insidious in any typology with more than 4 categories. It's largely something that spontaneously arises too, and it is created by the fact that typology is not values-free, which should make it even more alarming.

What I'm referring to doesn't happen in typologies with 4 or less categories and why it doesn't is simpler than directly explaining all the reasons it happens in larger ones. Take Hogwarts houses. This isn't a serious psychological typology or supposed to be innate at all (you get to choose your house) but a lot of people have commented that it basically shows psychological traits. You can basically divide it up into two axes, a light and warm vs. dark and cold axis (Gryffindor and Hufflepuff vs. Ravenclaw and Slytherin) and an active vs. passive axis (Gryffindor and Slytherin vs. Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff), and then there's an axis for houses being favored or unfavored in the books (Gryffindor and Ravenclaw vs. Slytherin and Hufflepuff). If the majority of people favor one of either axis, more people will shift to the other axis to be edgy or hipsters or just express alienation and dissatisfaction in general. That shifts the other dimensional axis to being the dominant one, so people will start shifting to a house there with the same trait on the other axis. If everyone wants to be in Gryffindor and Slytherin to be relevant, people from there will switch to nearby Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw. If more people are in Gryffindor and Hufflepuff to be light, they'll start switching into Slytherin and Ravenclaw. The mutability of the houses is created by the obvious perceptibility of the various traits of all of the houses. You see the same thing with the four temperaments, introverts and extraverts, elements, etc.

On the other hand, any system with more than four types either has obvious asymmetries, or too many types to be obviously perceptible (usually these play off of each other, since the symmetries add order to the system and if it's just a complete mess, it doesn't matter how mathematically intricate your system is. Systems with five types tend to either over-value or under-value one of the types compared to the other five, systems with six introduce height- and direction-metaphors that imply hierarchy based on the sheer fact of how they have to be represented physically, systems with seven have the same issue as with five, and systems with more than that can't be remembered without first learning about the types and forming prejudices that become self-sustaining, due to people not being able to remember more than 7 items of information regarding an unfamiliar topic). All the insidiousness arises out of the dynamics of a larger system just because of their nature and here's how it works in action.

First, socionics. Socionics is supposed to treat all of the types as equal but different. Aside from separate but equal not really being a thing, which types get chosen to be valued in socionics is not even vaguely random. The valued types tend to be largely quadra-based due to the tribalism that arises through socionics's four quadra system (which is basically a sub-typology like Hogwarts houses that makes things much more interesting than MBTI), but the most valued types (on this forum) are IEI and SLE, and the most valued quadra is Beta Quadra. What makes the system really insidious rather than just eyeroll-worthy is the existence of dreck types. The dreck types in any system always outnumber the valued types, like dreck always outnumbers what's well-made. In socionics the dreck types are ESE, ILE, LII, and IEE, and Alpha Quadra is consigned to being a dreck quadra due to the presence of 3/4 of the dreck types (SEI is not a dreck type due to the overall dynamic of the system, which is why it's basically completely uncontroversial to self-type as SEI). IEI is the most valuable type simply due to the nature of socionics typology. It tends to be used as a way for people to know themselves and to improve. Deep knowledge is associated with Ni in socionics, and personal and emotional awareness is associated with Ethics > Logics, since NTs are generally portrayed as robots who want to be deep and emotional at best, like some sort of Pinocchio wanting to be a real boy. The Te PoLR in IEI is a bonus, because it basically describes IEIs as sucking at anything practical or logical in the common interpretation. People sucking at anything is because they're too good for it, essentially. SLE is valued due to being the other half of IEI, someone who can do everything with utter ease and who doesn't think deeply because they don't have to, like a rampant medieval saga hero but in real life, and who IEIs can acceptably envy due to the theory of duality applying to all the types, without them (or SLEs) having to give up their status at the top due to not being good at something. Beta is chosen on this forum due to containing those types and due to people like mu4 who the overwhelming majority of people are irritated with self-typing in Gamma, Alpha being the dreck quadra everywhere, and Delta being diametrically opposed to Beta while not containing as good or popular types.

At this point, everything I've described still just sounds like a nuisance, but here's where you get the insidious part of it all: Ne is considered shallow, ADHD, childish, a spaz, and dreck (although EII tends to be a moderately-good to very-good-but-not-pinacled type due to being Literally an Empath, having extremely good morality, and in a neutral quadra). This is not in retaliation to the original socionists over-favoring it, or MBTI or Jung over-favoring Ni. Ni was opposed to Si in all of these systems, not Ne. The reason Ne is the target is because perspective-taking, nihilism, and whimsy all tend to be (often incorrectly) attributed to it, and if people used more of this, socionics would simply not be able to maintain itself the way it does on this forum. It's like finches evolving longer beaks if they have to peck into weird trees in the Galapagos, not anything anyone designed. If anyone thought it might be possible that socionics wasn't the Ultimate Truth of Reality, they'd go look at other things, get a life, and decide that socionics is not really worth their time, so anyone looking at other possibilities must be doing it because they are shallow. If people decide to devalue socionics (a nihilistic approach to the theory) or do it just for fun, it must be because they are childish and not serious or deep in general (never mind that just the word "nihilism" tends to imply "3edgy5me" and "3deep5me" and therefore Ni, nihilism is expressed through farce and contradiction so people see it as Ne and annoying). It is also very difficult to nearly impossible to re-type from a dreck type to a valued type, since Ne-leads seeing all the different possibilities and ESEs being suggestible that way combined with not being able to see the larger picture are exactly the people who would be confused and retype themselves, while IEIs and other higher-value types would very decisively know who they are and not have to (never mind that the types are projections and the theory is legitimately based on higher-level mathematics and not widely agreed-upon in its concrete manifestations, which makes it much easier to retype in socionics than enneagram, but that barely lowers the disturbing way the theory perpetuates itself). Getting a type in the first place is an investment of putting out (often deeply) personal information that you'd never put anywhere else on the Internet except social media, so once people have a type that they feel is good enough, they will defend it by putting out more personal information when people challenge them with conflicting observations. Since people feel exposed from doing that in the first place, they tend to stick around, which is the investment quality. Deciding typology is nonsense and quitting, or even a fun game worth continuing for fun makes the investment of deeply personal and serious information in it seem worthless and like a threat, since there's no way to take information back and once it's out there, it's out there. So the system is essentially perpetuated through loyalty and in socionics, this has its pinnacle in the IEI type. At the very least, SLE has the excuse of having no internal life if they'd like to fall back on that (although this is a cost in itself, it's essentially a one-time cost), but IEI must constantly renew itself with exposure to prove that it has a deep inner life, which also tends to mean deep exposure, or risk being re-typed into dreck types.

Enneagram actually has the exact same thing going on. In enneagram, the dreck types are 2, 6 and 9, the dreck instinct stacking is So/Sx, and the dreck tritypes are 2-6-9 and 3-6-9. The valued tritypes are 4-5-8 (especially this one, despite the "dark" reputation) and 4-5-9, the valued instinct stackings are Sx/Sp and Sp/Sx, and the valued types are 4 and 8. The valued types being 4 and 8 are basically exactly the same tired tropes as IEI and SLE in socionics, and the devalued types are basically the same issue: people have no real understanding of anything, except in this case, it's due to being too social and conformist rather than to being too scatterbrained and superficial (although notice the similar motif with So/Sx's flightiness). 4 has the interesting added trait of having to be "authentic", "deep", and "self-revealing" that forces people to put massive amounts of just incredibly personal information out there just to get it (unless you do the Real Romantic Cheat like me and just say "I'm too unique and complex for an enneagram type. I don't want to be part of a group anyways". This should be the criteria for being a real 4: being too good for typology, now go your own way and have fun with your poetry and trees. But this does not sustain the system at all since it just drives snobs out and having an inaccessible type only makes people want it and change the criteria, so it gets evolved out naturally). E2 is devalued since 4 disintegrates to 2 and the beaten-up people who identify with E4 put all of the characteristics of their narcissistic parents into E2 ("the image of being helpful, without necessarily being helpful" rather than the real problem actually helpful people have of being too accommodating to the point where they're squashed before they can do anything, which is instead moved to E9 so people don't have to have such a cynical view of humanity). 4-5-8 is the most value type because it is dominant and 4-5-9 is submissive. People typing in 4-5-8 are either not particularly into enneagram communities, or they're the people perpetuating them. The 4-5-9 tritype is "more enlightened and spiritual" but notice that you have to be completely accommodating within the community to be typed as it in general, which means a surrender of the will. This essentially traps you within the community (unless you're using enneagram casually, but most of those people will pick 4-5-1 over 4-5-9). The 4-5-8s have to ramble about how dark and evil they are, but this is not a real downside. Batman is faaaaar more popular than Superman for a reason, and it's the same reason vampires are considered sexy or people like reading The Stranger by Camus. People want an excuse to embrace egotism and their dark side, desperately, and "Man, I just want to strangle him, I'm so angry!" is frankly something that everyone has thought at at least one point even if they don't really mean it. 4-5-8 in enneagram is like the sort of "rebellion" that is actually normal due to a false view of normal being perpetuated by everyone (see: TV talk shows and their "controversial views" that are literally mainstream) but it's still considered a superior type so you have the same problem where people have to invest in it like in socionics (4-5-9s have the same problem too, but they get their type through someone else giving it to them in the first place since no real triple-withdrawn would type completely of their own volition. You need good references to apply to be 4-5-9). Notice that the 4-5-8 descriptions all focus on how they view their world from the inside while the 4-5-9 descriptions are all about how passive and avoidant and innocent they are compared to other people in social situations, like it's some sort of highly-introverted version of a 3-6-9. This is exactly the same dynamic that Chae mentions in her post against BDSM where BDSM communities are a way to perpetuate abuse. People say that 4-5-9s are the most spiritual type to create the illusion that people want to type as that and be enneagram subs/abused, while enneagram doms/abusers are 4-5-8s (this doesn't go for people who aren't deeply involved in the communities and just want an enneagram Pisces or Scorpio-type equivalent, as I said before, and this works the same way that the valuation of types works in the first place: there are too many tritypes for people to value them all without learning the values, so often people independently going through it will often pick 2-6-1, 3-7-8, or some other, generally extreme-sounding, tritype that sounds like what they normally value but that enneagram communities don't even care about one way or another as their personal favorite. Sometimes people will even pick dreck tritypes according to the communities based on their understanding of those tritypes).

In both typologies, you have the claim "people don't really know themselves" as the threat, which is often completely absurd when presented to people who have detailed records of their lives and thoughts in various forms. This is basically my earlier Nietzsche/Romantic point about individualism: if people are their inner selves, what's looking inwards? As Wittgenstein said, there's no private language, so it's the collective that makes language (the Gattung) looking inwards to the individual. So denying that someone knows themselves in a situation where it'd generally be agreed that they know themselves by people who don't have a vested interest (diarists, bloggers, etc. are not usually argued with on this basis, because the content of what they do and think is more important than the fact of the person being introspective since introspection is a value propagated by typology but not really society at large in all contexts) is simply a way of saying "the Gattung disagrees" with people inserting themselves as the authority for the Gattung. It is a power-play that tries to ontologically violate and invalidate people, and it is sustained by sacrifices (preferably other people's). All because people have to perpetually renew their denial that they gave up so much that this society considers of utmost value for nothing.

Hopefully I did good enough explaining that. I don't want to have wasted time explaining what seems like obvious patterns to me but is probably going to get at least some weak roars of "You're so shallow and un-spiritual and missing the typology Gattung's point!" from the audience. These are patterns I've put together over time. You're going to have to argue against my premises or reasoning to dismantle it or you're reinforcing my point.

Original version:

Observed relationships between behaviors and functions, well, my viewpoint at least:

Convergent Perception - Tendency for perception to converge on a singular point, or from point to smaller point within larger point. Associated with predatory vision and hearing.
Divergent Perception - Tendency for perception to diverge from singular point to nondescript, peripheral, or unfocused state. Associated with anti-predatory, or prey, vision and hearing.
Movement Response - Movement towards or away from food sources or predators; fight or flight
Signal Response - Signals inability of movement control in presence of loss of food sources or predators; cries for help, signal of inability to change Movement Response

Sensing, Intuition, Thinking, and Feeling, respectively.

Completed version:

Finished this and tested it.

Se+ Maintaining focused senses
Ne+ Maintaining peripheral senses
Te+ Moving
Fe+ Speaking or noises
Se- Changing focused senses
Ne- Changing peripheral senses
Te- Not moving
Fe- Not speaking or noises
Si+ Comparing prey
Ni+ Comparing predators
Ti+ Comparing movements
Fi+ Comparing speaking or noises
Si- Not comparing prey
Ni- Not comparing predators
Ti- Not comparing movements
Fi- Not comparing speaking or noises

What do you think de- and increases it?

What factors are involved locally?

Is there typically a person or interest group that determines what general social acceptance is for their gain?

Hey guys, new here. This is my first post and I have registered here in order to settle a confusion that has lasted for nearly three years. I seem to be unable to settle on a type for long. One thing that I am almost certain of is the fact that I am on the Ni/Se axis. I am going to keep this short, as there are quite a few questions to answer and by doing so I think that I'll hold your attention on the most important aspects.

Tell me about yourself.

Well, how do I start this. I think it is relevant to say that I find it hard to talk about myself in general terms. Specific questions I have no problem to answer. I am an intuitive person, quite empathetic, intelligent and goal-oriented. One problem that I have is with procrastination, but I always finish the task. For this reason I am able to maintain in the 10% of my class in college. I think a relevant addition here would be an occurence from my childhood. A teacher was telling a mithical story and I was running the story through my mind, seeing the events from the perspective of the characters. This led to me starting to cry because I was seeing the drama of the characters in front of my eyes, so to speak. I feel kinda embarassed to talk about things like this, but I do for the purpose of this thread.

What do you study or do for a living? How did you come to do that? What do you like or dislike about it?

I study law. I came to do this because I thought the law field matched my personality, and for the posibilities that can arise from being a lawyer afterwards. I like to study certain fields, like Civil law and International law, along with the competitive aspect that arises from different contests in college. I dislike the dogmatism that some teachers manifest.

What are your values, and why?

This is a problematic question for me. I feel like I am not sufficiently aware of myself to answer these kind of questions with certainty. I value strength, self-discipline, emotional control, kindness, rationality. Because I think these fit with the ideal that I set for myself to achieve.

What else do you do on a daily basis? What are your interests and hobbies? Why do you do them?

Besides being occupied with law school, I got involved in a year-long contest. So that occupies most of my free time. Aside from that, I study psychology and religions. I like to drive very much. I love the rush that comes with driving at a high speed. Also driving at night with music playing. I feel like I get in a meditative state in these moments. Ni/Se, maybe. Also reading books, watching either pure action movies like Mad Max, or intellectual movies like Cloud Atlas. I would like to try sky-diving. I like both to the same degree, as both provide something of equal value to me. One stimulates my need for rush, the other my intellectual needs.

Describe your relations with family and friends. What do you like and dislike about them?

My relations with my family and friends are a bit distant. I like that fact that I can always rely on their support. I kinda dislike that we are somewhat distant, to be frank.

What do you look for in friends? In romantic relationships?

In friends I look for loyalty, intelligence, a bit of a wild side, the ability to have fun when the situation arises. I find that regarding my intellectual needs I can satisfy myself for the most part, so in friends I am mostly looking for someone that is able to have a good time with me. In romantic relations there can't be a compromise between the intellectual and the physical. I need a balance, so my partner needs to be both someone with who I can have an intellectual conversation, and someone with who I can have fun. Physical attraction is a must.

What conflicts have you encountered recently with other people? Why did they happen? Which kinds seem to happen on a regular basis?

Recently with a friend. I didn't think of him when I smoked somewhere in the house. These kind of conflicts, about not thinking about others needs, seem to arise on a regular basis. Not calling my family enough, not complimenting my girl enough.

How would your friends describe you?

Calm, reliable, logical, strong. My friends don't know my empathetic side. For better or worse, I hide that for fear of looking weak. I hate losing emotional control. Sometimes though my emotions get so high that I can't hold back.

What do people generally see as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?

The qualities that I described abouve. The fact that I am able to strive for self-actualization, for the image that I hold of myself in my mind.

What are your weaknesses? What criticism do you often face from others? What do you dislike about yourself?

I can be extremely stubborn. Indecisive if I don't have objective facts on which to make a decision. The tendency to get annoyed when people work on a task too slow. Kinda shy, but people don't see that as I hide it. Criticism related to the fact that I don't think about them, even though that is not necessarly true. I dislike about myself my shyness and occasional indecisiveness.

In what areas of life can you manage well on your own? In what areas of your life would you like help?

Studying, intellectual pursuits. Help in taking initiative more often in relations and building those in the long term. Also in household tasks. I procrastinate on cleaning.

What things do you find to be a chore? What things do you enjoy more than others?

Household tasks, paying bills. I enjoy more than others the feeling of adrenaline rushing through my body in risky situations. Also I enjoy intellectual pursuits more that most people. Though most people don't always see this side of myself because I keep relations with them on a mostly superficial level.

What goals, aspirations, or plans do you have for the future? How did you come to have them?

Finish law school in the top 5%. Find a high level job at a law firm. Take more initiative in relations. I came to have them based on the future that I envision for myself as a person.

If you had enough money to live comfortably for the rest of your life without working, what would you do with your time?

Try to experience as many things as possible that life has to offer. Hardships and bliss.

What traits do you find endearing that others might dislike? What traits are considered positive/neutral by others but tend to annoy you?

Well, in the opposite sex, the capacity to seduce. Same sex, being frank. Excessive and superficial smiling.

What kinds of things do you do to manage and/or beautify your environment (your room, your house, etc.)? What do you think of daily chores?

Avoid clutter, harmonize colours. Hate them for the most part.

How do you behave around strangers?

Some would see me as kind of hostile, distant. Until someone enters my circle, I don't show much affection.

How do you react to conflict? What do you do if somebody insults or attacks you?

Rationally. I try to find if there is a valid reason for the conflict. If there is, resolve that. If there isn't, make it clear. If necessary, react the same.

What is one common misconception that people have? Explain why it is wrong.

About me? That I lack feelings. The level of sentiment that I can reach is deeper than most people could ever imagine me reaching. But I hide it to not appear weak.

What did you do last Friday?

Went to the mall with a friend.

What is your biggest accomplishment?

Finishing first in my class last semester.

What is something you regret?

Hesitating in owning some of my decisions.

Who do you admire, and why?

Real example, or qualities in a person? David Lynch. He's a genius, seems very deep.

What's been on your mind? Has anything been worrying or concerning you? What problems have you encountered lately?

Lack of motivation. Always needing a purpose to do something. Procrastination.

What are your religious or spiritual beliefs and why do you hold them?

My beliefs are in flux. I find it hard to believe in something without a bulletproof reasoning. Which is why I am not really religious or spiritual. Despite this, I try to bipass my intellect and just do things that would be considered spiritual to lead me to that path, even though my mind might find it absurd.

What are your political beliefs, and why? To what extent do you care about politics?

I hold mostly conservative beliefs. I used to have more liberal beliefs, but I think that some limits to certain freedoms must exist. More involved in politics than the average person.

Would you ever be interested in starting a business? Why or why not? What role would you play in it? What kind of business would it be?

Yes. In order to develop myself and for the financiary gain. CEO. Law related.

What kind of work environment do you prefer? What do you look for in a job?

Clear delimitation of tasks. Friendly colleagues. I look for the prospect of advancement.

What is or was your favorite school subject and why?

Civil law. It is not black and white.

How do you approach responsibility? What do you tend to expect of others?

I hold it in high regard. I keep my promises. I expect the same.

Where did you go on your most recent vacation? What did you do there? How did you like it and why?

Italy. Visiting and partying. Loved the atmosphere, especially at night. It felt...mysterious, passionate, meditative.

What were you like as a kid? How have you changed since you were a child?

Very active in sports. Talented at all kinds of sports. Intellectual, less control of my emotional response. Very deep emotions. More shy, more introverted, less confident. Changed by becoming substantially more confident. Still talented at all kinds of sports, but less involved in them.

What was your high school experience like?

Boring for the most part. Much better in college. I was too reclusive and shy in high school.

Talk about a significant event from your life.

Recent break-up. Had to face my naked self and answer some unpleasant questions regarding myself.

Do you like kids? Why or why not?

Yes. Because they naive and sincere. Kinda like small animals. For the most part.

If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?

Assure the respect of my kid. That he got involved in intelligent hobbies, like chess. Also that he got involved in sports, team sports especially. Guide him to those. In order for him to become a well-rounded individual.

Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.

Yes, regarding socionics actually. Going back and forth between INxp, ENxj, considering ESTp, even ENFp. The causes revolve around the fact that I can entertain in my mind every posibility, to some extent. My reaction to it is to research the crap out of it and to become frustrated.

How do you see other people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.

I see people as a whole as interesting. Well...I think that uniformity in people, the need to conform to superficial common interests, would be a problem.

What do you do if you're not getting what you want? What approach do you use?

Try to get what I want. Insist.

Are you comfortable taking leadership roles? In what areas? Why or why not?

Yes. In competitions regarding law school, for example. I love getting the whole team around a common purpose, organizing the weak spots and maximizing the strong spots of the team.

How often do you get angry? What kinds of things make you angry?

Funny. I get angry at the fact that I get anxious. Probably enneagram 6 related. Besides my anxiety: a condescending tone. I hate this. Also people that convey themselves as pitiful, as victims. Hate them also.

What is the best thing that happened to you during the past week?

Got accepted for an internship that I wanted badly.

What is the worst thing that happened to you during the past week?

Can't think of anything significant.

What is the purpose of life? What do you find personally meaningful in life?

I believe there are numerous paths on which one can walk in life. However, what I find to be meaningful, and what I think every individual wants, is to find self-actualisation. To become the best version of you that you can become.

What is the most interesting place you have been, and why?

A hotel in France. Had the opportunity to meet some very interesting people. The atmosphere was almost spiritual.

How do you dress or manage your appearance?

I dress very well. I have an innate ability to sort out aesthetics. This includes clothes and general looks.

Do you like surprises?

I would tend towards saying no.

Is there anything else important about you that we should know?

I believe this covers it.

Well, those were a lot of questions. I would be very grateful for your help. Seeing as I seem unable to find a type and settle on it for long, I would appreciate a discussion as it would help me clarify my thoughts. I find that by speaking some things become more clear to me.

Cheers!:content:

I usually have all of these in one sit-in:

-A pint of ben and jerry's



-Two oatmeal creme pies



-A sleeve of oreos



-a box of toast'ems (my mom's too cheap to buy pop tarts)

I've noticed that most of the girls on the myproana forums (the bulimics and anorexics especially) seem like ethical decisive types

What's the positive side of Beta/Delta aristocracy? Both theory and personal experiences welcome.


Some I noticed:

- easy bonding when I sense that we share an affiliation
- group loyalty
- having a certain "we can count on each other" feeling with people in my circle that are also aristocratic
- exclusiveness fends off idiots at a safe distance already
- much permanent activity instead of having random people to talk to. We're all in the same boat then, that is great.
- you can "inaugurate" someone to a special topic which is fun for both
- being able to find people I resonate with fast
- subculture adherence (also contraflow-related)
- creating a shared experience
- making sense of things quickly by determining people clusters rather than looking at individuals without group context.

Yo yo yo. So I have a pretty good idea about everyone in my family, but I figure why not see how VI matches up with that. Plus I wanna show off how good our family genes are.

This person is very polite and to a certain extend withholds their view on things. Their energy level seems really uneven, jittery, sometimes calm and collected other times a bit all over the place like they can't rest.

They place importance on explaining things, yet are not very good at it: they seem to have a hard time in putting together one flowing explanation. Frequently they pause as they're talking and ask the questions asked of them back and they seem to have a difficult time coming up with an answer. However they're not trying to cover up for this, occasionally will say 'i'm sorry, i just don't know' without giving the impression they feel embarrassed by it.

They dress real simple, nothing extravagant in their outfits, everything about them seems prioritized for comfort. Oh, maybe a bit of a flair like minor tattoos etc.

They seem a bit shy; smile easily. Yet sometimes the smile seems to come out of nowhere, as if they have a joke their pondering internally but don't want to share.

They have some experience traveling internationally.

I know this is much too little to go by, but alas this is all i can share so far.

Thanks.